First off, the thought of this had never really occurred to me until just the other day. The Flying Fisch posted 30 ideas and concepts that he feels Zelda Wii would benefit from. #21 on the list was less dungeons, and I'll admit my initial reaction to it was shock. I mean, Zelda is known for dungeon crawling, so why would you want less of it? To go even further, the dungeons in Spirit Tracks were really the big saving grace for an otherwise "boring" game. Don't get me wrong, I love Spirit Tracks, but really what I love about it is 100% dungeon related. They are masterful, especially as the game progresses, and the new items use in them is both fun, and highly unique. Still, could he be onto something? Would a better Zelda experience involve fewer dungeons?First, we can't really get into this without people first understanding what the original idealist for this concept said:
Woohoo, now I said it. Don´t kill me, but I hated TP´s focus on running from dungeon to dungeon. If you read everything up to this point you´ll have noticed that to me the most important part of a Zelda-game is it´s overworld. I´ve got nothing against well presented dungeons, but don´t make them feel so puzzle-like. I don´t want the Zelda-series to feel like a Dr. Kawashima with a different coat of paint. And I dare say that all the typical block pushing-puzzles are of no use anymore. The heck, even TP had only few ones of them already, so it´s not like Nintendo does not know about these puzzles becoming boring. Instead of eight or more dungeons, give me like three typical dungeons. Have one being a forsaken ancient ruin, one a legendary, rumored cave and a third one being a big, creepy castle high in the mountains. And that´s it. No forest-fire-water-and so on-dungeon.
Keep the number of these low and include all the typical challenge into the overworld. By creating a complex forest, a big mountain-area or other hard-to-see through-area types. And scrap the whole "find small key, find big key"-stuff. It´s tedious and unfun. Also, and that´s what I hate most about dungeons in Zelda-games, give them a meaning beyond "get the dungeon item". Afaik the OoT-manga is not canon material, but if it was, the Fire temple would be the greatest dungeon of all. Why? Because the dungeon itself is a place of the Gorons, Volvagia was sent there by Ganondorf to take care of the Gorons, and last but not least: Volvagia was once freed by young Link, but got under Ganondorf´s control somehow. And NOW Link has to fight his once beloved little friend. That is what I call meaningful. Instead of having me go through the temple of time and beat a random spider-boss at its end.
Now, without really reading the rest of the article, it can still be hard to understand what the author means here. Essentially he is asking for a lot of things outside the dungeons to change, and become much more in-depth... and he is actually asking for a much bigger, more detailed, world (or overworld, as it was). In doing this, he feels fewer dungeons are needed. The tradition these days is 3 dungeons, maybe 4, plot twist, 3 or 4 more, you win. It is an old formula that works, but is gathering dust. Now, think back to Twilight Princess; after the big plot twist it did feel as if going through the dungeons after that was simply filler content. There wasn't really a whole lot of reason to go through them, and the excuse of the shattered Mirror was silly. It worked, yes, and I still feel Twilight Princess is one of the better stories in Zelda... but it could be so much better. I'll admit Fire, Water, and Forest temples are growing stale. A lot of the puzzles in them are... shall we say... old. We've done them all before... many times. Spirit Tracks did add a few new twists such as pushing ice blocks that had bells on them. Still, essentially, the puzzles were rehashes of puzzles from previous titles.
However, the dungeons are still the best part of Zelda, even with old elements and a "been there done that" feeling. The better question is: Should it be? I know we here at Zelda Informer keep going back to this example, but Majora's Mask is simply that good. You guys generally agree: Anytime we write about Majora's Mask our viewership goes through the roof... so it must have done a lot right, no? One thing Majora's Mask did was focus on the world, the people, and less on dungeon crawling. There were 4 total dungeons, and all of them were masterfully done. The Goron Village felt like a real living village, and to this day the story and world of Termina is one of the most unique places to exist in gaming.
You will not find one person who will say Majora's Mask did not feel like every bit of a Zelda game. It maintained all the elements we know and love about Zelda at its core (yes, even without Zelda herself, Ganondorf, or the triforce), and delivered to us something completely unexpected. An actual living, breathing, world. Not to mention the fact the difficulty may have finally found a happy medium as well. There were a lot of challenging aspects to the game, many of which were optional. While the Stone Tower to this day is still considered possibly the greatest Zelda dungeon ever made... and that is with it also being one of the most difficult. That difficulty only made things more fun, as for one of the few times in a dungeon we had to think, and think hard, about what we are doing, where we are going, and how to defeat the enemies around us. I would take 3 Stone Tower dungeons over 8 Twilight Princess dungeons any day of the week.
This entire mess brings everything full circle: Would future Zelda titles be better with fewer Dungeons, and more focus on the world? I think as Majora's Mask showed, the answer is yes. You could create a bigger, vaster world, and make things between dungeons not only matter... but be insanely epic and fun all over again. You could expand into real side story questing that makes a difference on the people, and on Hyrule itself. It would take attention off epic dungeons, and expand it to an epic world full of wonder, mystery, and several more hours of game play and replay value. You could take the fewer dungeon concept, say 4, and make those 4 dungeons even more epic. Uses of several different weapons in the dungeon, harder enemies, more intense puzzles, and really make 4 of the best dungeons to ever exist in any game, not just a in a Zelda game. You could really make the build up to the bosses be insanely epic, and have the fights match that attitude. You could then take other bosses and spread them around the world. Who says a dungeon is needed to have boss encounters? Who says I can't just be randomly exploring a vast forest and then get jumped by a giant animal?
In the end, I can see the benefits of fewer dungeons in terms of a games focus. Spirit Tracks could have been "that much" better if it had fewer dungeons, as you could focus more attention on everything else. The counter to this is obviously the game could be shorter, and Nintendo would then get lazy and not focus on the other aspects like one may assume would happen (based off Majora's Mask). All I know is, the idea of another game that takes the Majora's Mask's concept of a living world with fewer dungeons could be exactly what the doctor ordered.
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Well put! You've got me convinced.. Creating smaller dungeons but in larger quantities does not sound nearly as enticing to me as much larger dungeons filled with more challenges. Maybe even have multiple bosses in one dungeon? Who says that wouldn't be awesome?
Actualy i dont wanna few dunegones, but i expect this game with more action outsied of the dungeon, just like TP, it had a lot of focus outside the dungeons, why not? It's a kinda boring finish a dungeon and leter complet another dungeon
Yes, why don't we just get rid of all of them while we're at it? And then lets stop with this trend of collecting random items to progress further into the story as its too out of place like the dungeons were and detracts from the "living, breathing world." And while we're at it lets get some voice acting for Link and everybody in the game to make things even more realistic eh? But wait, there's no way people speaking modern english in a medieval fantasy setting like Zelda would fit. Why don't we set the game in modern times as well to fix that? Oh, and an archaic title like "The Legend of Zelda" just won't work anymore. Lets just change the name too. Anything else?
How about Zelda with a Mass Effect like conversation system? Link doesn't necessarily have to speak... I mean, in Oblivion, your character didn't speak.
Yeah...seems to me people wanna see more Animal crossing and less...Zelda. The original Zelda had zip for dramatic NPCs but it had a big open overworld. I wanna see more dungeons AND more NPCs. Not just one of the other. =/ If Nintendo threw another MM at me...I wouldn't be happy. I wanna see something new.
Course...Nintendo is going to throw us off by reinventing the structure of the series. They mentioned dungeons will be in the game...and they mentioned a much bigger overworld...but they never explained how we would go about this field/dungeon pattern.
What a surprise, another Zelda fan article that fellates Majora's Mask as a vehicle to determine the series' future. While they seemingly put a load of effort into making Termina into a living, breathing world, is that REALLY more compelling than the more dungeon-heavy Zelda games? Is watching townspeople go about their daily business honestly so much more exciting than plumbing the depths of temples and caverns, fighting monsters and collecting treasure?
Obviously Jon. Why, when I first played the original Zelda all I cared about was observing the lives of the daily life of the Old Men and Lady NPCs. Dungeons and fighting? Pfft! They always came second to me. It was all about Link's interaction with the NPCs in the fascinating world of 8-bit Hyrule. That's all I cared about personally.
I definitely think TP went overboard with dungeons, and even OoT felt really stale after going through so many dungeons with almost nothing substantial in between. MM did the dungeons wonderfully, but the time limit kept me from enjoying it to the fullest. ST was a step in the right direction, but I felt they were mostly too short. 3 is certainly too little though, and 4 is still rather lacking. 5 dungeons is more like it, provided they are done well, and I really love nothing more than overworld exploration and character interaction, so added overworld activities is my biggest wish for Zelda Wii.
One thing I really want about the overworld is the addition of random bosses; that would be awesome. That was one thing I loved about PH: those random sea monsters that popped up out of nowhere. Sure, they were easy as cake, but they were surprising and that I liked. Plus, they were spaced out enough that you never expected them. I want more random boss encounters like that, but harder. It would make the overworld that much more fun, and I can imagine it as a wonderful tool for increased character interaction (directly saving a village as the villages watch as opposed to indirectly protecting them from an evil dungeon).
@Jon S
Is a dead world that extremely boring play between dungeons worth the 8 hours of dungeon play you get per game?
Alright to clear up af ew things:
Dungeons are essential to Zelda. I do not want them going away. My suggestion isn't to sit there and watch NPC's, or just talk to NPC's. Did you guys even read my article?
I want less dungeons that are longer, more epic, and a hell of a lot more difficult. Then to compensate for less dungeons, I want a more immerwive world. No, not oblivion. No, not Dragon Age.
I want an action oriented world, you know... where you fight bosses in the overworld, and the sidquests and such tie together different towns. Forget talking to NPC's, I am talking about a truly immersive action packed world, where dungeons are the pinnacle... not the entire game.
TP was all about Dungeon Dungeon Dungeon... and they were all pretty bland, easy, and the boss fights were not that memorable. WHat i am suggesting fixes all of above, and makes the ENTIRE GAME epic, instead of JUST dungeons.
Now, is that so much to wish for?
@ A- Was that sarcasm, or were you serious?
Sometimes I just think I need a sarcasm sign :/
I swear, it seems EVERY article is how Majora's Mask is such a godly game, how it did every thing right, it focused on NPCs blah blah blah. Ya know, just looking at how a guy goes about his routine for three days then having to start over doesnt seem so amazing to me.
Ya sure, go make an interesting overworld, with a lot of stuff to do, but that doesn't mean you have to get rid of the dungeons, thats what Zelda is known for! if you have fewer dungeons by the time your done with all of them you'll just be wishing for more. this is easily the most bullshit article on this site ive ever seen
You're not really citing any examples of what you want to see. You're just spouting generalizations of your idea of IMMERSION and things Aonuma already said they were planning to do in Zelda Wii.
Also, your last comment seems to conflict with your one aimed at Jon, which I might add your implication seems to suggest the first 5 Zelda games were not good games. The way you generalized your question you could make any game seem like a piece of crap.
I wasn't being serious, Sam. Although you wouldn't know it after reading this article.
a zelda game would not be beter with fewer dungeons, it simpily needs better, more in depth dungons, mabye with more story behind them or puzzles to solve in the over world that would efect the dungeons, and the plot twists should be beter and more twards the end, not nonexistant. and i feel like adressing a problem with majoras mask, it realy made no sense, who the hell was majora and why was he/she trying to destroy the world, why would a paralell word have an exact copy of every one in the previos game exept for you, how did a mask salesman uncover a highly sought after and extremly powerful artifactwhy did the bosses turn into masks and what relation did they have to majora's mask, what was the strange area in wich you fought majora's mask, and finally who was feirce deity and why was he considered by majora to be the ultimate bad guy. im not saying MM was bad, im simpily explaining its lack of any back story what so ever. finally zelda games shouldent have fewer dungeons they sould just have beter puzzles, and more storyline behind the bosses or the dungeons themselves.
My answer is no. I don't see why we need less dungeons in order to make a better overworld. Why can't we have both? Nintendo isn't on some sort of schedule. They generally take the time they need to perfect a game. I see no reason why we can't have 8 dungeons, and an immersive world full of boss like encounters, epic side quests, and the character development you are asking for. I suppose disk space could be an issue, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if they had to use 2 disks.
And what's this about TP bosses not being memorable? Stallord didn't top our Top Ten Boss list because he was forgetable.
Don't listen to A, he seems to be constantly looking for a fight. You don't need me telling you that anyway.
I've always liked running around in the overworld funner than being inside dungeons. As a MM fan, I agree with your comparision. Although I do like dungeons, fewer of them might be good. I also think it would be a nice idea making a "dungeon" in the open - I mean, not a building, you know?
Side note: I thought Spirt Tracks' sidequests were very fun.
there should never be less then 8 dungeons, there shouldnt be any reason why nintendo cant make an amazing overworld and at the same time create epic dungeons there reason why the dungeons have been terrible is because most dungeons latley have been a rehash of older dungeons and always trying to align them to a specific element/theme, thats cool if there is a fire dungeon, but have other dungeons be more universal and, no more light this torch to get a key to the door that is in the same room, or push this block over here, come on nintendo you have almost infinite resources at your disposal stop trying to redo the same 6 dungeons every game. there doesnt always need to be an item in a dungeon make us think and use or items we already have. the asnwer isnt to 'SETTLE" for less dungeons, nintendo didnt want to alienate weak players so nintendo 'SETTLED" for less ememies in the game, less dungeons is just an excuse for nintendo to take the easy way out.
i think that there could be at least 6 indepth dungeons. the annoying thing about phantom hourglass was that it had many dungeons, but you could finish them in like 10 minutes. there was nothing to do!! and spirit tracks had fewer dungeons with more to do. but i felt that there was too much train driving and not enough of actauly link. what the zelda series needs is new items and not always the boomerang and the bow as main dungeon items. the ocean temple in ST was aweomse cause of the whip and the Sand temple in TP had the spinner. i think fresh new items inhance the awesomeness of a dungeon and the way the boss is defeated. getting the same items in every game feels like a bit of a let down
Well...people like Zeldas for different reasons. But for me, I love a long main quest. One thing that I loved about LA was the fact that you needed to do a quest in order to get into all 8 dungeons. That was really awesome. And although MM did the same...it was really short. But still I loved it. However I think it's pretty retarded how people don't see that in TP you needed to do a quest in order to get into almost every dungeon too. They almost perfectly did what LA started and MM enhanced. I absolutely loved, actually saving people. Doing things that were really fun like escorting and fighting. That was amazing. Are people just being stupid and going on with the TP hate fad or what?
I really liked ST but it was insanely short. I beat the first level in 10 minutes. Complete joke. What it did perfectly was set a real difficulty curve which is something I hadn't seen in the series since ALttP. I'm not a sidequest person but I absolutely love MM. However...making everything like MM doesn't solve everyone's problem...since all of my friends HATE MM. And a lot of people outside of the series don't find Kafei and Anju...fun. Key word fun.
I wanna see a heck of a lot more NPC interactions I wanna see more Kafei and Anju...but not at the expense of what I love about the series. The feeling of exploring something completely different. OoT's Temples has amazing atmosphere. It's my favorite title...but there was nothing between some of those levels. Also prominent in OoT, TWW and TP...the story fads out right after the Master Sword is drawn.
Either way...I never understood how Nintendo could give us less that 8 dungeons. It was okay for MM since it was a "Spin-off" I guess...but it really doesn't go well for me when I realize the series watered down what made the series great in the first place. It's a freakin' shame...and I thoroughly enjoyed TP. Heck, I've enjoyed all of the great, perfect games this series has. And I don't mind if people think other wise...
However with the new Zelda...I'd like to see them break 13. And give us a fuller overworld with an amazing cast of characters.
What? No, I think you are way, way off. The big mistake is the undue praise you are giving to Majora's Mask. MAJORA'S MASK WAS AVERAGE, AT BEST.
I liked MM, but only for what it was: a cleverly crafted and completely unique follow up to OOT. It was a nice "bonus game", but not among the best Zeldas.
First, even if you liked MM, it did not have a bigger overworld, it was actually pretty small, and prosaically laid out (north to the snow, west to the ocean, south to the swamp, east to the mountains). It did work in a lot of details and sidequests (which was great!) but that can be achieved without taking space away from the dungeons, it's simply a matter of programming in new events, few additional polygons needed.
Second, the dungeons in MM were far inferior to OOT and TP. The Stone Tower is way over rated, it was clever, but not among the best dungeons in Zelda history (which are the final dungeons in LoZ, AoL, and a few of the best from OOT and TP).
New dungeons don't all have a been there done that feeling. Snowpeak Ruins, the Sky Temple, and the Twilight Temple were all new and unique in their own ways. Further, the dungeons in ST are pretty damn good too.
Finally, it was nice to take on some new persona's in MM, but really the goofy animation went a long way toward ruining that experience. Having Link in a Goron body and keeping his green hat was off putting and too silly for Zelda. Some of the mechanics, especially the rolling, were and took away from the game, imo.
MM was a good effort, a nice little treat to give us before the long wait for WW, but it was not among the best Zeldas.
Debating what the best ration of overworld to dungeon in best is a worthy question, but MM should not be the standard.
That said, I want 8, 9, 10, 11 dungeons and a huge overworld...to me both are essential parts of a good Zelda.
Twelve crappy dungeons, please. ;)
Seriously, though, Nintendo definitely seems to be taking their time and putting a lot of effort into adjusting Zelda Wii to satisfy fans. There's no reason to assume it's impossible to get 8 Stone Towers, an excellent overworld, and great NPC interaction. It's not impossible, anyway...
Also one of the complaints was about the dungeons having predictable themes such as forest, fire, and water. And then there were complaints that TP's later dungeons were bland. While some of the complaints levied against the second half of TP are justified, the dungeon themes definitely don't fall under "cliche."
@Jupiter:
You seem to forget the reason why a lot of people love MM.
Your opinion on the dungeons not being as good as others is just that, an opinion, and one I highly disagree with. They were far more complex and difficult than most dungeons before or since. Whether you like that or not is your choice.
As for why *I* love MM, it's much more to do with the story and side stories. They are insanely complex and incredibly unique with a depth to them that games even now haven't even been able to achieve. The Villain was incredible, both pure evil but shrouded in a mystery of its intentions and its origins. Then there is the side quests, the side characters, the general visual aesthetic. Really, I'm sure I cannot name everything I loved about the game.
But as I said, that is my opinion. You have yours. And you should not be so rash to completely scoff an idea just because your opinion clashes with it.
If the next Zelda has a hub world with 12 dungeons, I'll probably still like it. But I have to agree with Nate, I think 4 or so large and complex dungeons, a few equally large but lex complex minidungeons, and a huge and intricate overworld would be best for my enjoyment.
I think that the article has a point in making the dungeons better and more meaningful, but MM really isn't the best example for this. Bar Stone Tower, none of MM's dungeons were anything special, and even then there wasn't a whole lot of meaning to Stone Tower either, or Twinmold. In OoT you would hear about the curse of the Deku Tree, or the beasts in Dodongo's Cavern, or the sickness of Jabu-Jabu. The dungeons had meaning beyond "go here do this get that".
Later in the game, we hear about the dragon that terrorizes the Gorons, which turns out to be Volvagia. This gives meaning to the boss. By talking to Darunia and his son, you get a good picture of what will happen if Volvagia runs free, and that gives the boss a whole new meaning. And let's not forget Bongo-Bongo or Twinrova.
Basically, there's a whole lot more to OoT's dungeons than you'd originally think. They do have a purpose. They do have meaning. And while I'm all for more overworld interaction ala LoZ, I think that OoT did have great dungeons and made a better job on making these dungeons matter than MM or later games (WW, TP). Hell, only a few dungeons in TP can really compare to OoT's when it comes to this.
So basically, I agree with the article, but not the example put forth. I don't want another Majora's Mask.
I think Nintendo should go with less dungeons, but make them twice as long. also, keep an ooccoo type thing in the game, so we can get out if we need to easily.
I still think we should get more complex dungeons and more action outside the dungeons, like mini-boss battles or other thing. Less focus in dungeons would be great.
Anda why not a dungeon wich is not a dungeon? Like a dungeon in the fleld or something like that, not a cave.
An epic topic. While I haven't read all the comments in-depth, I gotta say I agree mostly with the people saying they want fewer dungeons. The main argument here is that fewer dungeons creates more creativity. Allow me to explain:
My overall problem with TP was that the insanely linear environment and the through-the-roof number of dungeons made the game lose all of its potential in surprising the player. I was never thinking, "What happens now? Where should I go? What will happen to the people of Hyrule?". After I had completed the first three dungeons, I knew what was waiting for me. Small segments of story, then another dungeon. And another. And oh yeah, one more.
Seriously, in the end, when you finally gather the mirror, go into the Twilight Realm it's just another freaking dungeon. Not only that, Palace of Twilight is one of the worst dungeons in the entire series, only ranking higher than Hyrule Castle, also from TP. These two dungeons were just crammed into the game, and they had no content or anything. I for one was looking forward to exploring a different overworld in the Twilight Realm, but the whole concept of dungeon crawling killed that.
The same goes with Hyrule Castle. Man, it could've been cool to, for once, experience a realistic castle, something we actually have never seen before in Zelda, have we? But no, just another dungeon with chests and chests and keys and locked doors.
My point is that the players know what to expect, and they know the patterns so well by now, that unless the dungeons are filled with interesting characters, maybe seperate and alternative routes, a back story, a reason to be there and beat the boss, I gotta say, I'm getting bored.
So bored. ST was a great game, but only because the DS was fun to play around with. And plus, it's a handheld title, so I don't expect big stuff from that. But a Zelda Wii with the practically useless and short dungeons from ST? That'd be so disappointing.
Bottom line is: MM got it right. More open world play and longer interesting, meaningful dungeons. Not Palace of Twilight and Hyrule Castle. This also gives the developers more creativity, as I said, since they can take a break from what they usually do when they make a Zelda game. I think that would be pay off, and give us an experience worthy of MM. Not by making another MM, but by making the world matter, instead of making "Forest", "Fire" and "Water" temples.
Of course, dungeons should be in the next game, but only of they are relevant.
The more dungeons there are, the more heart containers you get from defeating bosses, the less heart pieces you get from side quests. I don't really like the idea of Zelda Wii having few dungeons. I would rather prefer if it had about the number of TP or OoT, but didn't give you a heart container for every single boss you defeat, and rather have more heart pieces as a reward for sidequests. This way, it could, or at last should, be focused on both things: Dungeons and the overworld.
@Phil Stetson
No doubt you have your opinion and I have mine. I was simply voicing mine and challenging all the people who truly think MM was the best Zelda, because I can't believe so many people really think that and I wonder if they are romanticizing it to some extent.
I also do not want another MM, and so I think it is important to show that some of us thought it was cool, but not great.
Now, you talk about how hard the dungeons were, let me make this clear: I WANT DEVILISHLY HARD DUNGEONS. But I did not think the ones in MM were especially hard at all (the final dungeons in LoZ or AoL, those were the most difficult in the series, imo, and the next hardest were in OOT).
I don't want to bash MM all together, I loved the three day world in which felt like it had it's own life and place, and that combined with the impending sense of doom gave the main quest and side quests some extra heft. It was a very good game, a worthy and unique side quest in it's own right.
I'll also repeat that the aesthetic was too goofy for me. Things like the big moon with the grin on it's face bugged me. Playing as a Goron with links hat on, yuck! (The Gorons have always kind of bugged me as characters anyway.) And playing horns & drums & guitar as the different characters...nice for a game if we can all agree that this was a goofy little side tittle, but please, please, please give me something more serious in a full scale Zelda. Compare the 4 average dungeons on MM to the many very good dungeons in OOT or TP and it loses every day if you ask me.
I'll also repeat that the overworld had a prosaic and uninspiring layout. It was literally laid out like a hub with the four territories laid out perfectly in the cardinal directions--how lame is that? Not to mention that it had snow, swamp, beach, mountain, and field all somehow coexisting in one area--that's too silly for a full scale console Zelda, imo.
I'll also throw in there that the first two bosses were really mediocre, at best (the last three were pretty cool). And when you have 5 bosses total in a game, that's not a great percentage.
I'm glad MM was made at all, it's a decent game with a very, very good central premise, but it's just is not as well crafted or big as other console Zelda's. MM a good little side quest but is way over rated in the fan community , imo.
So tell me, what's so great about OoT and TP's dungeons, since MM's are just 'average'?
Well...for me personally. I had more fun in the OoT levels...and enjoyed most of TPs. I love MM...but the levels were pretty painful. I like Greatbay temple (Screw the water haters) And I love Stone Tower Temple...but I really can't stand anything that has to do with ice...and the Deku Palace is one of my least favorites. OoT had amazing atmosphere for every dungeon, and it was really fun and memorable. I spent hours upon hours in those levels...but MM simply forbad that kind of exloring joy.
As for TP...I wasn't a fan of the ice level, but I loved the build up to every level and the levels themselves housed new items that were insanely fun to play with. They presented a whole bunch of new mechanics that I really liked, even for old weapons.
I like MM more than TP though...=/
I'm hearing a lot of calls for fewer but longer dungeons. This might not be the best thing. Dungeons CAN be too long. It's painful to find the boss key, only to realize you have to go through a whole other floor of pointlessly frustrating obstacle courses you've already went through twice.
Sometimes short and sweet is good for a dungeon. ;)
Or maybe Nintendo should just make fun dungeons, that aren't directly frustrating to play, but just plain hard. With less doing the same thing over and over. The hardest dungeon (IMO) in TP took me like 2 hours (City in the Sky). Could be more interesting with a real challenge for once. Only the first two games are really challenging in my opinion.
But why not diferent dungeons? Who says that a dunegon must be a temple or a huge cave? Could be just a city or a open field
No it could not, and that's the reason they are called dungeons. One of the thing that makes a dungeon are the things preventing you from getting directly from place A to place B.
There was a sampple in TP intro what an undungeon like the ones you long for could be.
@ Jupiter: I agree with you, especially with the part about MM being romanticed.
However, I think the next one zelda should have both, dungeons, and undungeons.
@ A
take a chill pill, and if you can't be nice here, then please stay away from the comment box.
@ Open Dungeons - Boss fights in fields
What about King Bulbin from TP? He kept popping up again and again AND was part of why your adventure started in the first place. The First fight with him which end with you knocking him off of Eldin Bridge was great, made better with Link's "Zorro Pose". Then continually having to deal with him and him basically saying you are stronger then Ganondorf at the end of the last fight was nice. Lets not forget the random moments when you got stuck in a barrier whith a horde of beasts. Then, you have the fight at Lake Hylia with the Gaint Bug, I did not see that one coming to be honest.
@ TP bashers
3 words for ya..."NO TAKE MIRROR!!!" XD
Fewer dungeons? No way! In fact I think they should even add like 3 hidden optional dungeons to the like 8 mandatory. And they sure should improve the battle difficulty. The puzzle types... I loved those in TP, it didn't seem a videogame. Oh, and they should give more life to the world and characters, something like MM and its bomber notebook would rock, the backstory of all those characters and their interactions were awesome!
I like running through dungeons...and I like being outside of dungeons. My favorite games are OoT, MM and TP...So I kind of like either or. What matters the most is how much fun I am having in the dungeons. I have thousands of different memories for each dungeon in OoT. And I loved every dungeon in TP. For me though...I don't play MM for the dungeons, I play for everything around them. :P
I'd much rather many more dungeons that are well thought out and fun. If I don't like one dungeon...I can always expect something different from another. ST's later dungeons were great and I was begging for more when it abruptly ended. So fewer dungeons isn't good for me. Many dungeons with a lot of stuff to do between them = good. MM and TP got that down perfectly. And LA...OoT, MM, TP and LA.