I disagree somewhat. I am playing Dragon Age origins, which is 700 times harder then any Zelda title, and I admit I have every now and then glanced at a guide for a certain area. Now, is it because I can't beat the area on my own? Of course not. I can, and I have. The experience and sense of accomplishment isn't ruined because I looked up something.

Often times, I am only look for a hint. In this sense, I think the "spoiler free" walkthrough ZI has works wonders. It doesn't necessarily "tell" you how to do everything, it just hints. Yes, I have used walkthroughs, and I don't think people are idiots if they need it. fact remains that if "everyone" can't beat a game, it wont sell.

People play games for different reasons. If your a completionist and anti-walkthrough, you get a different experience from gaming then others do. Just because people use walkthroughs doesn't make gaming easy. What Nintendo implimente din New Super Mario Bros. Wii is not a walkthrough - it's a complete playthrough system where they play the game for you.

Thing about walkthroughs is - they can tell you how to do something, but your the one that actually has to do it. Sure, I was told what each mouse hole does in teh Mage area in Dragon Age, but only so I can get past this part quicker since I don't enjoy it that much.

Walkthroughs = your friend hint replacement, or the forum hint replacement. You can have it with you always (simply print it out), and your friends aren't necessarily going to be around when your playing a single player Zelda title. You may not always have internet access, or access to a computer. Often times, like with Spirit Tracks, your playing on a bus where a printed out walkthrough is your hint guide.

Never the less - I get your point, I just think it has little to do with how hard a game is. In fact, walkthroughs should entail the game can actually get harder.

I didn't even think about using a walkthrough on this game. I wanted it to challenge me, and I still got all the way through it. The walkthroughs are for
the ones who keep dying every three seconds.

The games are notoriously difficult. Ever try getting through the Water Temple only to find you've opened the wrong door? Not just that, you can't get a new key to open another one. You've saved, so
guess what? YOU START ALL OVER FROM THE
BEGINNING OF THE GAME!!!

Well, now that I've bellowed my complaint, I think
you'll see what I mean.

Besides, did you see how dissapointing Phantom Hourglass was? That was a reason to make Spirit Tracks a challenge! Why would you front the Zelda you know and enjoy??? You might as well play Pong
for all I care!

Hand on heart, I can say I haven't so much as glanced at a walkthrough, and up 'til now I've breezed through this game without encountering a single problem that has had me truely stumped. Truth be told, I'm struggling to see any sort of difficulty here, let alone any of it warranting the use of a walkthrough in the first place.

AMEN!

I disagree. It's not because I like using walkthroughs, it's more that not everyone uses walkthroughs because they are lazy and don't want to think the puzzle through. I for one have encountered points in the game where I just really hated the part of the dungeon I was doing. At that point, a walkthrough gives you those little hints that allow you to get past an unpleasant part of the game. I mean, if a game's not fun, why play it? I for one find it much more enjoyable to read some hints to get past a really frustrating part than to run around in circles for an hour.

Frankly I don't see that much difference between consulting a walkthrough and consulting a friend or forum. Either way, you're still getting help. Spoiler free walkthroughs don't give any more information than what you need, so your argument there is a little flawed.

Besides, I think you're missing one key detail: different people want different things out of a game. A hardcore gamer is going to play differently than a casual gamer who just wants to see a story unfold. Anyone who really wants the challenge will force themselves not to look up walkthroughs, so what's the problem with their existance? Say someone heard about a certain minigame at a secret station and really wanted to play it but doesn't want to spend hours trying to figure out how to get there. Should that person be denied directions to get to a section of the map where they can have fun? Does it make that person a failure just because they don't want to run around in circles to figure out how to get one force gem? They're still getting the gem themselves, but they can skip the tedious trial and error portion of trying multiple gems when they only really want one. I for one think that's perfectly acceptable. Those people who do not use walkthroughs can still get the full satisfaction of finding everything on there own, but you can't call the casual gamers (or younger players who have difficulty with puzzles, ever think of them?) "failures" just because they want to get to the next dungeon faster.

It depends on the game. I haven't used a guide for a main quests in Zelda. That said, when going for completion, such as every piece of heart and upgrade, I go to guides to find out some locations. I don't think the use of a guide necessitates that someone is incapable of playing difficult games. I went to a guide on Dragon Age Origins in order to find out which choices would turn out specific results in a couple situations; when you rent a game, and you don't have time to play it multiple times, sometimes you have to expedite a process. I don't use guides all the time, by any means. Several difficult games that many people use guides for are games I never used a guide on. Final Fantasy I think has maintained a comparable level of gaming throughout its franchise, but I never went guide on those. On Pokemon I went to guides in order to find out the locations of some missing Pokemon I really couldn't find. And in Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, I remember having to turn to guides often in order to find quests... those way off the beaten path, hidden quests.
I don't see why someone would think the use of guides is somehow anti-gaming, or somehow dumbs down the value of a gamer's progress in a game. After someone has paid for a product, they should be allowed to use it how they see fit, provided it is within the confines of the law. And appreciating a game is a subjective thing; no one can say unconditionally that playing a game with a guide somehow demeans that playthrough.

A lot of people just use walkthroughs for little hints to help them get through a part. The failures are the people who follow the walkthrough word for word from the beginning to the end. I think another exception in the failures is using walkthroughs to get that elusive piece of treasure or something. That what I do.

Hum, you are very rude! First, you call people you don't even know "no brain idiot"
Second : " People clearly can't handle the complexity of this type of game [Spirit Tracks]" Does anyone ever sayed that they can't handle this complexity?
3rd : "If you don't have friends, first of all I pity you" You don't need to blame the ones who don't have friends.

So shut the f**k up and get a life!

I haven't tried Spirit Tracks yet, but I probably will at some point.

In any case, I used to use walkthroughs when I started playing, which was more when I was 12. Now I don't use them as much, more for menial stuff like sidequests, where I don't necessarily want to spend a long time searching for things I don't remember too well. And you see, I think the reason for that is that many of us casual gamers need walkthoughs because we take 2-3 years to complete, (and I mean totally COMPLETE a game, not just rush through a game to say you could beat it in a few hours) because we have a responsibility to real life. Sure I'd love to play and play and then sleep and play some more, but the truth is I always had some kind of chore to do, whether it was homework, cooking, laundry, or cleaning. And not to mention other interests that need time of their own.

Also, I used to and still do a bit of game renting. Like someone said, you're kinda forced to speed it up a bit. I didn't and still don't :( have the monies to spend on games and changing game systems.

My point is like someone already mentioned, if you're a person who hates walkthroughs, you'll make an effort not to use them. But if you're like me and you get only 2 hours to play in a week, and sometimes not even at all in months, you can see where you'd need a walkthough. Is it a crime to savor every ounce of a game via the occasional walkthrough when you can't necessarily put all of your effort into it because of other responsibilities?

So please don't say that walkthoughs are ruining Zelda. That's just silly. Everyone has their own way of doing things, and for me, this works. And don't be so negative, it's a game really. Just do what makes you happy.

Happy gaming. :)

10000% agree.

um... i dont completly agree...

i know that a lot of people use walkthroughs to beat games but that doesnt meen that games from now on should be free of any challenge. not everybody uses walkthroughs and the ones that do only use them for some parts in a game.

i have to admit that when i was playing tp i would cheat all the time, but at that time i was 10 and it was only my 2nd 3D zelda game.

i hope nintendo doesnt get any ideas from this article. if zelda wii ends up being so easy a 3-year old can beat it im blaming you.

i sorta feel bad now. i've used guides before. and in Spirit Tracks, it was just these TINY little things i didn't get. i didn't know you COULD put the cap on the lava jet to shoot the arrows. stuff like that. and then when that is done i can go the entire rest of the dungeon on my own. and i only use guides after ive beaten the game for like, heart containers, if i honestly can't find them. in this game, i looked up WHICH stamps there were, not WHERE or HOW to get them. does that make me a failure? D:> i've only played three zelda's so far, so..

Cry more.

I used a guide to solve the puzzle that precedes obtaining the Master Sword in Twilight Princess.

I used it because the puzzle is ridiculous, arbitrary, and has no place in a Zelda game.

No puzzle has ever stumped me in a Zelda game except for this one.

I agree. But there will always be hypocrites. Its pointless to call them out. Like the guy above me who probably uses guides for everything and then tells people to "cry more."

YOU CAN'T POST SOMETHING LIKE THIS!

"I personally have played through every Zelda game without a walkthrough or guide."

And I suppose you want a cookie for this? Do you want a pat on the back for being a holy Zelda gamer that doesn't use icky tainted walkthroughs? Because this article certainly reeks of a holier-than-thou attitude, especially with the "spoiled and lazy" and "no brain loser" comments.

You don't research why people use walkthroughs (most comments above me mention that they use walkthroughs sparingly when they're stuck), don't realize that maybe some of the game mechanics in Zelda games can be frustrating to some gamers. Nope. Instead, you have to publish a giant whinefest that basically says we don't DESERVE difficult games thanks to some websites on the Internet.

In short, wow.

Wow, superiority complex much? Let people play however they want. I thought the point of games was to have fun, not to brag to all your friends about how 1337 U R. Too bad some people can't seem to figure out THAT simple puzzle without a walkthrough. :(

Could not agree any more. Walkthroughs are for failures at Zelda who don't bother spending some time on a certain puzzle... What about in the days of the old zelda games you could not run to the internet and see what to do next you could only relay on magazines and strategy guides (BOOKS) rarely people did not bother with them back then. When i used to play links awakening back then i had no sources, nothing to relay on... But it did not bother me a bit.

so i completely agree with you Casey Hodges, i must admit i used one section of a walkthroungh for zelda in all my life! in majoras mask for a one certain mask when i was younger.

I wanted to address the idea that people don't have time to solve every puzzle, or games won't sell unless everyone can complete them. When I was young, I was a huge fan of the classic Sonic the Hedgehog games. It took me years before I could beat any of them, yet I still loved them, and loved playing them. When I finally beat them, it was a huge accomplishment and I was proud of it.

Now days everyone expects to be able to beat a game, otherwise they can't enjoy them, or no one will buy them. Yet not everyone beat the original Sonic, or Mario, or Zelda for that matter, but these games all shared success. And who cares if you play under time constraints. If it takes you 3 years to beat a game, then take the time, you just get to enjoy the game longer than everyone else, and you'll probably appreciate the game more than anyone else.

If you are hanging out with a friend, and you ask about a level you are stuck on, then that's reasonable. It's a very social interaction, and is what Miyamoto originally intended with the original Zelda (can't find the source of that interview), but when you look up every little problem online, you are going too far. The internet has spoiled us in this regard. However, I think you will find if you just put a little more time into your problem, you can figure it out. Looking up the answer is just taking the easy way out, and hurts the experience of the game.

I wanted to write this article to point out some of the hypocrisy behind the Zelda community. Many out there complain Zelda is becoming too casual, and crave a more challenging experience. Yet, as you can see from the comments, many admit to using walkthroughs already. So we criticize PH and ST for being too easy, then immediately look up a walkthrough to learn how to beat the game. If more people were willing to play, without cheating, then maybe Nintendo would take our concerns seriously.

Using guides is cheating? You do realize that Nintendo publishes their own guides, don't you? As well, "back in a long time ago" before the Internet, you could call up hotlines (run by the game company themselves) for a by-minute fee and be helped with your game. Does no one remember that? I do. Check your old SNES cartridges if you have them. Many had an 800 number printed on the back.

Finally, you can't find this article you're citing? Awfully convenient for you.

@Caseman: Not everyone who says Zelda is becoming too casual admitted to using guides, and many people who use guides don't say that Zelda is casual. Like I said before, I only use guides sparingly, as I would use a friend or something like that. mainly I use them just to find out the location of quests or objects taht aren't necessarily hidden but jsut way off the beaten path. Does this use of guides somehow demean the way I play games?

Perhaps you should think before you write insulting and demeaning things.

One simple rule: No walkthroughs the first time you play through a game.
I spend as much time on it as I can, and find all I can, and when (if) I've reached my wit's end, I finish the game. Full walkthroughs are kind of unneccessary, since the puzzles are easy if you have patience (before the master sword in TP, for example), but a list of heart piece or item locations is fine with me.
The exploration and discovery element is vital to the Zelda experience, but after the first playthrough the charm has worn off, so have at 'er. Also, after playing through a game with a walkthrough once or twice, it's fun to go back and try to do it all from memory.

The date for this post is on December 31st

we are in the future

ps new season of law & order rules

" wanted to write this article to point out some of the hypocrisy behind the Zelda community."

You mean the hypocrisy behind some players acting like the people who don't play the exact same way they do are lazy, no-brained idiots and therefore aren't real Zelda fans?
Because the article succeeded in that regard.

Also, you bring up the point of asking a friend for hints when that's practically the same as consulting a walkthrough, only you're hearing it from your friend instead of someone you don't know.

Wait wait ... what about this? What if the friend you ask (because it's OK to ask your friend!) only knows the answer because s/he used a guide to complete the game!? What then? How can you know?? WHO CAN YOU TRUST!?

Wow, couldn't you write this article without sounding so angry and insulting?

Most gamers have used walkthroughs, for one reason or another, for one game or other. I used a walktrought for Majora's Mask - there was a character I couldn't find, no matter how much I looked. After searching for hours and getting a headache, I decided to use a walkthrough: went online, searched for the character's name, checked his schedule and that was it.

According to you, that makes me a Failure. With capital F. That's not very nice of you.

I believe it winds down to this: is there any section of the game that is truly ruining the experience for you? If so, then I wouldn't hesitate to use a walkthrough. Games are about enjoying them and having a good time, not about OMG my harcore gamer cred!!!1

I agree that gamers _should_ try and solve things on their own, think a little instead of just running to the guide. But then, using one shouldn't be reason to look down on people.

Spirit Tracks has been really easy for me so far and haven't had any problems with it. I had to look up just about every thing for Twilight Princess though cause I have not the patience and got frustrated with it a lot but the first time around I figured out the puzzle to get to the Master Sword by myself

Also my friend did a walkthrough of Wind Waker i watched it beginning to end and not because I was stuck, I didn't even get Wind Waker until after he'd been done with that walkthrough for months. Why did I watch it, because he was funny. Sometimes people watch it for entertainment purposes like i did with Wind Waker and if he wasn't as funny as he was in his walkthrough I wouldn't be here right now cause I honestly wouldn't be a Zelda fan.

Spirit Tracks has been really easy for me so far and haven't had any problems with it. I had to look up just about every thing for Twilight Princess though cause I have not the patience and got frustrated with it a lot but the first time around I figured out the puzzle to get to the Master Sword by myself (my comment above was supposed to be below the site decided to be retarded

To be honest, I want the games to be harder...(mainly the combat)

Buying and beating Twilight princess in a few days without a guide made me seriously doubt that the next thing they have in store for us is worth playing.

They need to implement different difficulties, kinda like master quest.

I know that making the game harder would make it less apealing to children, but then hey - having difficulty settings would fix this. I remember those two stalfos in OoT were tricky for me as an 8 year old kid way back when, but anyone can eventually get through that stuff. Combat difficulty and complexity is also another element that guides can only help a certain amount with ^.^

To be honest, I want the games to be harder...(mainly the combat)

Buying and beating Twilight princess in a few days without a guide made me seriously doubt that the next thing they have in store for us is worth playing.

They need to implement different difficulties, kinda like master quest.

I know that making the game harder would make it less apealing to children, but then hey - having difficulty settings would fix this. I remember those two stalfos in OoT were tricky for me as an 8 year old kid way back when, but anyone can eventually get through that stuff. Combat difficulty and complexity is also another element that guides can only help a certain amount with ^.^

I think this article is a little too harsh on gamers that use guides.

Personally, I have rarely needed guides for Zelda games, but I have asked for help or (God forbid!) looked at a guide in order to solve one or two puzzles that I simply couldn't get through at the time, even after countless tries.

The way I see it, guides are meant to help you when you're stuck and simply cannot find a way to advance throughout the game. Gamers should not be judged by that: some people simply find some things more difficult than others. Playing games is not about the size of your e-Penis, but enjoyment. If you seriously can't get through something in a game, Zelda or anything else, then there's no shame in looking at a guide for anyone.

The only thing that warrants this kind of attitude is against gamers that don't even try and play the game, from start to finish, while using the guide all the time. Preferably, a guide should only be used when you're honestly stuck.

I agree about that. Its a shame others just listen to a walkthrough with words that hardly explain the game. But every time I come to a dead end (what I mean by that, whenever I just can't figure it out), I just get a nerve to see a walkthrough. I mean, some of us aren't wise enough to say "Oh yeah! I have to light the orbs in the order: Left,right,top,bottom!" or don't have a friend around who play Zelda. Or we aren't a member of the forum, and there are no answers on there, a walkthrough is the right place to be. But I don't usually follow one. I can usually figure it out myself. And I think Nintendo should lower the fighting, and more puzzles, for at least a single game in the series. And every time I solve a puzzle, I feel proud. That's how other people should feel. So they should do something to feel they head rise proudly: DON'T FOLLOW WALKTHROUGHS. But still, thanks for those walkthroughs you did.

Hey, EVERYONE LISTEN! He's trying to tell people who DON'T use their brains in Zelda and use WALKTHROUGHS instead, to stop following guides.

I only use walkthroughs when I am absolutely stuck, like in the original zelda or when you had to find the secret tunnel to animal village in Links awakening.

(And also when I epic failed at this one puzzle that was so obvious in Phantom Hourglass on the ghost ship.)

I avoid using a walkthroughs if at all possible, but IMO if you've tried everything and can't progress its better to look up the solution than to never finish the game, that is just a waste of money. For instance I couldn't find Makar in WW.

What I don't understand people who read the solutions to everything though. Why bother playing a game like Zelda if you are just going to look up all the answers? Isn't the whole fun of the game solving the puzzles yourself? Sure if you get really stuck, that is no fun, but never getting stuck can't be much fun either.

Spirit Tracks has had some nice puzzles, I haven't gotten stuck yet, though I have to say the "Door of Friendship" puzzle was stupid. Yes I figured out which statues were which, but it took me a while to figure out you were supposed to play the Song of Light while standing between the two men. The puzzle is pretty easy, but its totally non-intuitive how you enter the answer. Same goes for that door you draw on, the game in no way tells you that is how you answer the puzzle.

I've played through every Zelda game that I could to date and I admit I have glanced at my beloved walkthroughs only after beating the game at least once. I usually run through the game once and then use the walkthrough to go back and grab what I missed.