At least when you point to the negatives of a game, you make valid points. So, I agree with what you said.
However.....am I the only one who talked to the scarecrow in the clocktown shop? He tells you the tricks of the song of time.
I always talk to all characters I see. :P
side note about time paradox's, there was a time paradox in Ocarina. :P the windmill guy.

The bank one is not really a paradox. He stamps the number on Link's hand, so that he can "remember." Of course, it makes Link sound like a thief. ^_^

Although I agree with the point, which is that the bank is annoying. On the other hand, the amount of rupee you can keep is not limited to the limit of the bag.

There are a lot of debatable things that are wrong with Majora's Mask and I'm not sure why they weren't mentioned here. It seems the things picked out here were the obvious no-brainer reasons that a majority of people don't care about.

This list really just seems like a poor response to the first article. Majora's Mask does get a hell of a lot of love around ZI, and this seems like an article that tries to show a differing view, but I don't think it does a good job.

I'm sorry you feel that way Masses. While these reasons were obvious, I would still argue that most people do in fact care about them, since they were very bothersome to them while playing. I found it necessary to point them out to remind people the prominent flaws that often get overlooked.

If you have different, or better arguments, for or against Majora's Mask I'd love to hear them.

Just...no. What you mentioned doesn't make Majora's Mask any less awesome than it is. Who cares about Bank Paradox, or items? Sure, I've asked myself how Link's money could be kept in the bank while traveling back in time, but that doesn't make the game less great.

HOW DARE YOU SAY SUCH A IDIOT THING LIKE THAT?! YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOR THIS >:(

1. This is the only point I agree with. But,"The game leaves you with an awkward Ocarina of Time after taste."

I'd love to know what this means.

2. [On the Item Paradox] "This is just bad game design meant to inconvenience the player."

I can't think of a quality game without "inconveniences". If you kept every single item you collected during the three days, your bombs and arrows and the like would be constantly maxed out. It increases the difficulty slightly, because the Zelda games aren't supposed to be easy.

Running out of bombs in front of a wall of boulders is a big part of the Zelda experience.

3. [On the Bank Paradox] "This simply makes no sense and is a direct result of poor game design."

I highly doubt it's a result of "poor game design". It was implemented as a convenience to the player, so you didn't have to recollected a bunch of rupee every time the clock reset (which is something you complained about in point 2).

4. Majora's Mask wouldn't be Majora's Mask without the time limit. Sure, there are probably a lot of people who don't like being pressured by a time limit, but that is purely personal taste. Just because you don't like being challenged by a game, doesn't mean the challenge is a flaw.

5. Majora's Mask is a long game, you've said yourself that it takes a lot of trial and error and a lot of replays to work out what the hell to do.

6. "The save system alone needlessly complicates the game." How is it needless? The save systems make the game harder.

A hard game does not equal a bad game, nor does it equal a flawed game. If these points you have made were changed in the game, Majora's Mask would be boring and extremely easy.

These "flaws" aren't poor game design; these are simply things you didn't like about the game.

Those aren't flaws, those are things that deter many gamers from playing it. Many players hate Majora's Mask for that, but that doesn't make them flaws.

On the first so-called 'flaw': I believe it -was- confirmed that it was a parallel dimension, that it was first planned to be a dream that happened during the seven year coma but that the creators decided otherwise.
And that no, it wasn't a joy ride to make that game. They didn't have much time to make that game so they just did what they could with what they had to make it a full game, without it becoming an Ocarina of Time clone.

My only problem here is my lack of links to prove what I'm saying (I should save those more often), but I'm convinced about it.

And I haven't read all the article to be honest.

The little I've read though makes me say: those aren't 'flaws', unless you mesure perfection (and the lack of it) by popularity standards, then yes, those are flaws because many gamers hate what you just mentionned.

I don't know, it's as if saying Wind Waker's art style is a flaw. It isn't, by artistic standards it's far from flawed. It's not popular, it's not the 'beautiful' Zelda game people wanted, but it would be like saying Dali's style is flawed because it's not easy on the eye.
But that's just it. It's not a flaw, not even a quality if we want more arguments, it's simply a characteristic.

It's not a perfect game, but your list is more a 'what makes MM the controversial black sheep of the serie' than a 'what makes MM not deserve a 10 out of 10' article.

Plot-wise, I find MM amazing. Then again, I wasn't impressed with TP's plot but it seems I should be. (Don't get me wrong, I love TP. I just don't get the 'darkest Zelda yet' feeling others players claim it has. *shrugs* )

I know they didn't exactly ask Tolkien, Plato and Freud to write the plot and add in some 'dream-like symbolism', but it's still in my hobbies to analyse OoT Link. Whatcha want, timelines bore me so I've found something else to think about when wanting to feel like a hardcore fan

Eh, you guys like long arguments; I tried.

Sorry about the mispelling, the possible misreading of (part of) the article and the misreading my misleading comment can cause.

Or something.

..All hail sleeping disorder.

Well, Shando and Farore just pointed out exactly what I thought, so no need to repeat them, except for a few phrases that sum it all up:

"A hard game does not equal a bad game, nor does it equal a flawed game." (Shando)

"Those aren't flaws, those are things that deter many gamers from playing it. Many players hate Majora's Mask for that, but that doesn't make them flaws." (Farore)

"These "flaws" aren't poor game design; these are simply things you didn't like about the game." (Shando)

God, could you have missed the point ANY more?

These are the shallowest and weirdest reasons for you simply not liking it. Why don't you learn how to critique properly before you write another article...

Captain Rainbow:

"Now to be perfectly honest, despite its flaws, Majora's Mask is a great game. I encourage those who disliked the game to give it another try, because it gets better the more time you put into it."

Why don't you read the entire article before commenting next time.

A throwaway sentence does not change the negative stance on things heavily impressed upon the reader.

Come on, it's understandable if you don't like this game as much as others, but half of these reasons just look like your trying too hard to find something in the game to criticize, especially since many of them aren't worth complaining about. Especially #3. All that says is that you can't manage time, nor can you handle a little difficulty.

In contrast to many here it seems, I definately agree with most points made here. Though none of them ever bothered me much, they can most certainly hinder the experience somewhat, especially the new players.

And Farore, the fact that certain elements detriment new players is most certainly a flaw. While those more accustomed to MM won't find them flaws per se, the game is pretty ruthless to new gamers. It's easy to see that MM was made specifically geared towards seasoned OoT players that want something more unique and challenging in their Zelda games.

However, on the topic of flaws, MM possesses one that is not mentioned here yet it's pretty huge, so much so that it alone causes me not to play MM too often. I'm talking about events that only occur at a certain time. It's really a giant bother to just leave the game on and wait until something happens. It's impossible to skip to those moments with the Song of Double Time or the scarecrow, and Anju's grandmother won't tell stories on the Final Day. If they had some mechanism to skip time more efficiently (or speed it up), the game would have been so much better. Instead, I'm finding myself waiting for things to happen, all the while trying to entertain myself by hacking bushes or playing with masks.

While I agree that it's not the best and with each of your points, I'm tired of seeing these subjective titles you people use on this site in order to grab attention or assert the superiority of your opinions over everyone, whichever the reason is. Is it so hard to just title it "Why I believe ____ is ____?" Who started this trend?

I would join in and add several of my points as to why it isn't perfect, but the title of the article puts me off so much that I'd rather avoid association with supporting its claim, even if I agree with it. Not because I don't want to instigate further debate with fans, but because I'm against the idea of imposing my view as a fact unto other people when its a subjective matter. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Alas, my post will likely go unread and this trend will continue in Zelda Informer unhindered.

After reading this, I agree with almost every point you made. It's sort of funny too, because I am a first-time Majora's Mask player and i was just playing it the other day after a three month hiatus. It is sad that people aren't able to complete. This includes me. I've been frustrated so many times and it is very challenging. I hate the save system, and I would consider that a definite flaw. I feel like just the challenge itself is enough to deter many potential players; aka, this game is hardcore. Right now, I'm still struggling to complete it. I've never had to look at a guide so much in any game I've ever played. I still don't understand how anyone figured out the timing for the side quests! Some people just have a lot of time on their hands I guess. The truth for is, I typically don't, so this game is constantly getting set on the back shelf. Majora's Mask is not an easy game to complete, and it can be a painful time. The inconveniences, in my opinion, are definitely flaws.

Valid points, you argued them well, and I can definitely understand what you're trying to say here. I also just want to say that MM is one of my absolute favorite Zelda games, and I appreciate that you still pointed out that you enjoyed the game despite the multiple frustrations (and I certainly understand those frustrations).

So, this is where I get to argue with you. ^_^ The only point that I really disagree with that keeps getting brought up is that the difficulty of the game is a flaw and keeps new gamers from enjoying the experience. MM was the first Zelda game I ever played (maybe even the first game I ever really played aside from Mario), and is probably the reason why I play video games as much as I do now. I was probably 10 or 11 when I played MM, and I didn't find the difficulty to be a deterrent at all. To be honest, I was probably too busy being creeped the hell out by that freaky moon-face and the awesome story line to care about how many times I failed or ran out of time (which was often).

This is, of course, just an opinion, and I'm sure that there are many others who would disagree and say that the difficulty stopped them from progressing in the game at all. But I have to ask those people: isn't a more difficult Zelda game what we've been wanting since WW came out? Haven't we been complaining about the difficulty level ever since these "casual-gamer friendly" Zelda games started being released? Although the outrageous time-limit in MM was a little much, I still feel that Zelda needs a quality like that now more than ever. It seems that even when we get what we've been asking for, it still isn't enough for us Zelda-fanatics. :\

Great article! (>^_^)>

I think everything you wrote is true, except that these are all things that make me like the game more rather than less. lol.

It's really the realm of opinion, so what seems to be setting MM fans off here is the use of the word "flaws". I think what you call flaws were deliberate choices to make the game more challenging and unique, and maybe unintentionally more exclusive. e.g. the money/item loss is meant to be a game challenge first, and a logical time travel system last - and the banker's stamp is good enough for me.

But my only strong disagreement was with the first point you made about the reused characters. It only has the "Ocarina after taste" leftover if you've played OoT first, which is getting less common as the games become older. I played MM first, then when I finally played Oot, I was left with an awkward Majora's Mask after taste.

I hold that all the tremendous breakthroughs in Oot were more honed in MM, if not perfected.

Wow! It still surprises me that people try to find flaws with Majora's Mask. It amuses me, really. I'm sure you find these more of annoyance because clearly you think any little detail that doesn't make sense is a problem with the game.

Who cares if characters are reused? Sure, the developers might have been lazy a little bit but at least most of the reused characters have more depth to them than most characters in OoT. Anju's counterpart in OoT didn't have much to her at all. She just wanted you to get her Cuccos to get an Empty Bottle or 50 Rupees. In MM, they actually made her character more important which drew me towards the character more. I'm sure you might feel the same way towards other characters. I know many people hate Tingle but he was definitely cooler in Majora's Mask, that's for sure.

Why would the Item Paradox be that much of a problem? It makes the game different from all the other games and it makes perfect sense. If you collect an item, you got it in your inventory. Since everything resets in the game, it only makes sense that you would lose all your quantity and Event Items but still have the ability to still collect them since you got a Bomb Bag, Quiver, etc. There's nothing wrong with the bank at all. It's like saying that storing items with a Shop Owner in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door is a game flaw because you can get your items back from another shop somewhere else. Either you got no imagination or you are just so concerned about finding flaws.

The Time Limit is what makes the game what it is. If the game didn't have the Clock Engine, it would be a lot easier and nobody wants an easier and yet shorter game, do they? When I first played the game, I actually talked to people around Clock Town, including the Scarecrow so I was well aware of the different variants of the Song of Time. The only reason why first-time players wouldn't know is because they are probably rushing through or not talking to anybody at all. It's their fault they don't go exploring. I was nervous at the clock at first but that's what makes the game fun, trying to do as much as you can before you could eventually die.

Sure, Majora's Mask is a shorter game in the series but the side-quests in the game really do add a lot. Sure, if you've played through it enough times, you could say that but doing absolutely everything in the game (which I always do) sure does add a lot of length. There is so much to do and collect in the game, sometimes you might get side-tracked. This, and The Wind Waker, are one of the only games in the Zelda series that have a lot of side-quests and so many things for you to collect. I love collecting lots of things.

The Save System is what makes the Clock Engine unique and not a problem. Sure you might not be able to save like you would normally would in other Zelda games but if you could in this game, it would ruin it the fact that you can make a partial save midway through a cycle is awesome. We're lucky to have it because the Japanese version didn't get this feature and instead got 3 files and we only got 2.

The things you listed aren't flaws at all. Like other people have said already, it was basically you nitpicking things you didn't like about the game. There are other flaws in Majora's Mask that nobody ever talks makes mention about which I'd probably agree with you about. Majora's Mask is my favorite game so I try to defend it whenever I can. The fact that you said it is a great game makes everything better, I suppose.

@HyLorian
Instead of waiting, why not do something else to pass the time in-game? That's what I usually do.

I find most of these "flaws" to be great additions to the game.

And the bank is not a paradox at all, but others have already covered that.

Ruthless to new gamers? That's how games SHOULD be. That's how they were in the 1980's. People are just too accustomed to modern games that hold your hand all the way through.

I never had any issues with any of these so called problems.

I agree with some of your points, and the general gist of your article... Majora's Mask isn't perfect. In fact, it's my least favorite Zelda game on the N64. Of course, that doesn't mean it isn't thoroughly enjoyable, just like this article's writer implies.

I will say that I agree wholeheartedly on the length of the game. 4 dungeons? If you don't like playing one of the dungeons, that's at least 15% of the game you didn't like, probably more. Also, the side quests of Majora's aren't very expansive. Wind Waker was a game of huge exploration... Majora's just wasn't.

Ultimately, this game is not perfect... is any game? I think Majora fans need to realize that every game (including their precious Majora's) is a little flawed, and also subjectivity is the medium by which we define games.

So, which zelda is the best to you?

This game makes you care about everyone, The music is awesome, you have so many awesome items, plenty of sidequests, you can save whenever you want, and being in the same place you saved, teleporting is easier, original story, really dark atmosphere. Also Fierce Deity Link!! he's the coolest zelda character ever.

My brother is 11 years old, he finished this game 3 months ago, and he loved it, at first he felt it too difficult, but then he understood the system and he finished it without any help.

This is not an issue of difficulty, this is a problem with quality. For me, difficulty is about hard to solve puzzles, powerful enemies and bosses which require a lot to bring down, and small health bars that result in frequent deaths.

Adding time limits, using a difficult save system, and losing items are just an inconvenience to the player, not a promotion for difficulty. It makes the gameplay tedious and annoying, not challenging and fun.

My point is, these little flaws to the gameplay hold the game back from being the best Zelda game, but that doesn't make Majora's Mask a bad game, just not the greatest.

Does it amuse anyone else that most of these "flaws" were actually design choices meant to HELP the player?

Bank system: OH NO HE REMEMBERS HOW MUCH I HAVE?! FUCK THIS GAME IT'S SO POORLY DESIGNED!!!! If he didn't remember and you lost whatever you deposited each time you played the Song of Time, you would bitch about that simply to find useless "flaws" to try to push your agenda.

Time Paradox: Is this one a joke? It must be. This is far and away the most nonsensical point in the article. Ok, let's have the player lose EVERYTHING, not just rupees every time they have to play the Song of Time. In fact, let's have them start from the VERY beginning every single time. The game MUST be defeated in 3 days or it can't be defeated at all, that would be a BRILLIANT design decision. =_=;;

Game Length: Really? You think Majora's Mask should be LONGER? You must have been a real masochist when this game came out. If you are stuck in a dungeon it's so frigging frustrating to have to replay it when you run out of time in the first place, you'd rather have that fact multiplied? Also, "There are plenty of side quests, but they really don't add much length to the game." Have you EVER collected all 40 masks? The Kafei quest takes forever on its own!

Time Limit: You didn't even mention how this is a "flaw." You mentioned how it MAY deter first time players from completing it. Also, your point about not knowing the Inverse Song of Time and whatnot doesn't make any sense. You have 3 full, normal speed days to do nothing but explore Clock Town before you can do anything else. The Scarecrow is thrown at you in two places during this. Any new player would talk to it, especially in the observatory when it is staring right at you as soon as you walk in to the observatory.

Save System: You do have the Song of Soaring, right? You did notice the owl statues directly in front of EVERY dungeon, right? You did listen to Gaebora when he told you the Song of Soaring can warp you to dungeon beginnings, right? The game requires too much time to play through, you say? You did try talking to the Scarecrow, right? Oh wait! XD

Reused Characters: The game was developed in ONE year, not two. Also, a very large part of the game is meant to be a sense of familiarity that is quickly shattered. You're MEANT to say "Oh hey, I remember this! Hey, what's that? What? HOLY HELL WHAT IS THAT?! OH GOD WHY?!?!?!!?" There may have not been any in game flavor to explain the use of reused characters, there was plenty of situations and plot arcs that justify it completely. And either way, as I said, it was a result of having a VERY short time to develop the game. Would you rather they spent extra time working on new character models, thereby eliminating chunks of the game causing more issues and generally delivering a poor experience, or would you rather they reuse the models, give them new personalities and deliver an otherwise completely new experience?

Generally, I find this article very poorly written, with points that are not justified properly and several of the points not making any sense in the first place. Also, I'm pretty tired of these ZI articles that are for the sole purpose of pushing personal opinions on the readers and this is one of the worst offenders of this yet.

What's going on ZI? What happened to interesting articles playing both sides of the fence and articles stating interesting opinions without pushing them?

A: I am unsure exactly what you mean. You are asking a writer to lessen the attention of an article by saying "I think this". Thing is, thats a poor writing technique.

When you see, say ESPN, have a writer write 5 ways Tiger Woods can salvage his situation, or Tiger Needs to do what Kobe did, you know what happens? They grab attention, get lots of readers, and it's 100% opinion. The "title" itself is an opinion, and if you don't view it as such that your naturally not someone that enjoys good writing.

One aspect of writing, a major aspect, is attention grabbing titles. Anytime you see an article, the fact it is an article, and not a reasearch paper, implies it's opinion. 99% of the stuff you read is just an opinion, with titles that assert themselves for attention. Thats how the world works.

ok so i know MM isnt perfect buts its pretty close.

the list you show does show some flaws like the reused characters but when you compare this list with its positive aspects youll see why its a good game.

just because a game has flaws doesnt mean its not amazing. look at what makes the game good, not bad.

Ben: "Their precious Majora's"? Umm, no. People are allowed to have a favorite game. So you don't need to make fun of them like fan boys. Everyone knows that every game has its flaws.

Honestly, the more I read this article, the more I think it stands as a testament to how good MM really is. If these are the only lame "flaws" someone can come up with, then it is, by default, a pretty great game.

Also, @Nathanial: Sure, an article CAN be 100% opinion, but there is a very big difference between stating an opinion and pushing it. There is also a difference between stating an opinion and trying to criticize something. Criticism should be looked at objectively, playing Devil's Advocate and trying to find real truth behind the veil of hype, not smashing it for nothing but personal reasons. The title really isn't an issue, but the article is.

Talonmalon: I'm glad you took it upon yourself to assume that I had a maliciuos motive behind my comment. Majora's Mask is on my Top 100 Games list. I like it. So I'm a fanboy as much as you are. Go troll elsewhere.

Just wondering - what would MM be ~*without*~ the time limit?

I mean, how would it have worked? :|

"Go troll elsewhere."

After you. Unlike you, I don't try to cause trouble or use degrading names. Besides, I'm a regular on this site... sort of.

Fanboy =/= Fan

I didn't try to cause trouble. It appears that you have singled me out, as this is my first visit to this site, and you are trying to harass a Zelda fan to the point of no return. Well done. I'm out of here.

LOL. Buddy, I'm not trying to "harass" anyone, so there's no need to get overly offended or dramatic. I just don't think you realize that you say things that people might consider degrading, such as "degrading" and "your precious Majora's Mask".

If you can't handle a little criticism, then that's not my fault.

That last line should say: such as "FANBOY and "your precious Majora's Mask" :P.

I didn't realize my comment's wording would come off as offensive. Sorry about the mistake.

That's fine :). I just wanted to let you know that some people might get offended by being called "fan boy" or by your use of "precious".

Full agreement on those points, there. Majora's Mask is a great game that deserves the praise but I think people have been regarding it a bit too highly lately.

Needless to say, I disagree. :P

next up from zi: majora's mask is kinda the greatest (zelda) game ever made

Nick: And after that, you should do an article for "Majora's Mask is kinda-sorta the best Zelda game".

Haha Nick, great.

Although it's getting like that article Jason wrote at Zelda Universe about a year ago. Wrote a very critical article in the aftermath of the patent that was filed... and because of it, had somebody write a response type to it. I suppose for viewership sake, it is eye catching and readable.

I kinda agree with what 'Beware' said... in a way. The more you read this article, the more you find out how good Majora's Mask really is... This is what I get from reading this. I realize that if these are the things the author points out... then he must really think highly of MM.

This is precisely why I think this is a poor article. I think there are several things wrong with MM, and perhaps I'll write something of my own eventually... but I think this article misses upon more common complaints, and is very nit-picky. Thus, I don't think it does a good job at all refuting the original articles claims.

i wish i could objectively look at majora's mask without nostalgia involved. right now, i think it's like the greatest game ever, but if i played ocarina first, i'd probably have a totally different opinion.

@Nick: I played LoZ first and I still find MM to be infinitely superior to the rest (I played all of them in the order they were released except for ALttP which I played sometime after MM).

There are some points that can be made as to why it's not so good.

1. Dungeons. Some of them are simply too long. The Great Bay and Stone Tower Temple are ludicrous.

2. Bosses. The difficulty of these guys varies ridiculously. Goht being insanely easy and Gyorg being a real bastard by comparison.

3. Time Limit. No one likes to feel rushed, and that's exactly what MM tries to do. We get it, the sky is falling.

4. The sidequests. A Zelda game is about exploration, not helping this random twat find true love!

Now, I absolutely do NOT agree with any of these points, but viewed objectively these, I believe, are the points that stick out. The sidequests are obviously what makes MM so brilliant, same with the time limit. Without them it would be a shorter OoT. I find the Stone Tower Temple to be the most brilliantly designed temple in all of Zelda-dom and I find all four bosses to be really easy when you figure it out (which is really true for all Zelda bosses).

While I believe you may have caught more flack from the MM fanbase, at least those are valid points. Not "reused models, item paradox and bank paradox."

PS: About the reused models: Why is it that when OoT to MM does it, it's a big deal, but when every 2D Zelda since ALttP does it, it's not? The double standard there is interesting.

@Beware:

1: Dungeon's aren't too long, but they could have been done better.

2: I agree with the point completely.

3: Meanwhile I agre with you, I could ad, that the posibility to warp back in time makes the whole time limit pointless, meanwhile it still gives you rushed feeling. No good. I woukd personally have taken 72 real hours and no playing with time

4. I agree with the point. However, am I the only one to who it feels weird, that while you are rushed, you are stil able to do so much things that does not help your personal crusade agains the antagonist? I'm I the only one to see the irony in that, that you Majora freaks praise the atmosphere of the game, and the things that ruins it, Song of Time and idequests at the same time?

It's funny, but everything you mentioned I see as adding to the game. I suppose that the pros/cons of the game are based mainly on personal taste.

On another note: This site must really love Majora's Mask because there have been a ton of responses to this article. Even I said something and I'm in a kind of ZeldaInformer purgatory.

All these articles on Majora's Mask lately really makes me want to write my own. Yeah, MM does have its problems but I don't mind them too much since I've gotten used to them.

I played OoT before MM and I still think MM is a better game. Now, I just find OoT boring but if I replay MM, It still feels exciting. Heck, I find OoTMQ a lot more fun than OoT, one reason being that I found the Water Temple easier.

(In b4 my thoughts on MM)

Funny thing is, the last Zelda game I played for real was MM and now I'm playing PH and it feels so easy. To be able to save ANYWHERE and ANYTIME is so strange to me. Makes the game really easy etc etc etc. To me, the save system is perfect. Adds challenge to the game without being insanelly difficult.

Also, about the game itself. It didn't feel like a Zelda game to me. Lemme explain myself. To me, a Zelda game consists of having a clear objective - To kill Ganon and to save the princess, say - And everything you do works for you to get those things done. OoT felt that way. MC felt that way. ALTTP felt that way. Now, MM, I had the feeling of exploring an world. An almost real world. A world that wasn't designed towards the "objective". I mean, it's 3:31 A.M. where I live but I'm still trying to make a point and I WILL. What I'm trying to say is that everything you do in the other games translates around the said objective. If you take this objective out, there isn't nothing left. OoT felt that way, to me... In MM, you can do many things that don't influenciate over the last fight, or your main quest. On what helping Romani aids you to stop the moon falling, I mean? It's this "sidequest valor" I valor so much. There was freedom. An almost real world. A world that wasn't only alive because of, say, Ganon and Zelda.

The four temples - That I liked very much, thanks - Were a good main quest and the sidequests were THE sidequests. But I dunno, people complain about the game's lenght but also complain about how hard and lenghty the temples were. A big wat for me. So, Majora's main quest was short. This is where the "freedom" I spoke about earlier kicks in - There was so much "freedom" it didn't feel like a "real Zelda", and there must be a different way of rating it. MM's objective wasn't to have an epic main quest, to the extent everything outside it is so forgotten or shaded. It was to have an almost real world. I don't think I'm making myself clear. 3:39 AM. I'm sleepy.

Now, about the Time System. I think the time system is what made MM to be MM, a game with a real menace. I didn't want to go against Ganon again and to have him sit on this throne and wait for me while I kick his armies everywhere and he still just waits and waits. And it made the character development possible. And the character development is what I love the most in MM. T'was the thing that gave the game "freedom". I feel like an old anime character talking that way. "Freedom". lolwut. But anyway, if we take the Time System outta MM, what do get remain with? Another Zelda game. Another Epic Main Quest. Another Termi-- Oh wait wrong game. That is what I think made MM so different from the other Zeldas. People complain MM is too different, but if it hadn't the time system and that "freedom", people would complain it'd be too much of a Zelda.

Hm. I'm so sleepy I actually had to go and search for Phil's article instead of just clicking the link at the top. Stupid me. 3:45. I'm such a slow thinker and typer. Let's talk now about the reused characters... I don't know what to think about them. They were so much of just "I Like Swords"-type NPCs in OoT I didn't paid much attention to them when playing it. Now they are here with backstories and all that jazz. I wonder what would happen if they hadn't reused them. I don't actually care so much about Nintendo's lazyness... They did a job so good with them I think it covers all the bases.

The paradoxes, well, I think I can't say much about them. As I said, I think Nintendo won SO MUCH in the storyline, the development, the world building etc I didn't even paid attention to the 'doxes. 3:49. I think I'm done here.

I liked the article. The "paradoxes" things, IMO, wasn't much of a good reason comparing to Phil's reasons, but whathever. But maybe you are right. I hadn't read the last part of the article until now, and you just wrote about Zelda being about gameplay and not story. Exactly what I said about the Main Quest. It didn't feel like a Zelda game and I ADORE it. If it was like a Zelda game, I'd "meh" on it and call it another save the princess game. MM is my favorite game of the franchise and a close one to my favorite game of ALL TIME (And Imma let you finish etc). But yeah, as I said before, as a Zelda, MM isn't so good. But as a GAME, MM is superb, and maybe we shouldn't rate it comparing to the other Zeldas, specially if we take the "Zelda basics" as good thing and a must-have for a good game.

3:55. I'm shutting up now. Hope I didn't talk too much.

@RoyalAssassin:

I don't personally believe any of the points I made. That's just my take on looking at MM objectively from a first-timers view and the flaws that would stick out to them. I find MM to be unbelievably unique and something that gaming never matched before then and I do not believe it will match any time in the near future. It is my favorite game, period, and has been for years.

@Asmos:

I do agree it doesn't feel like a Zelda in the sense of OoT and current LoZ games, the way I see it, MM was the next natural evolution of the series. I feel almost every game after MM has taken HUGE steps backwards. The original intention of LoZ was to simulate the feeling of being a kid and exploring this vast world. Many of the games in the series lot sight of this whilst MM is consistently praised for having this freedom all running on top of basic Zelda fundamentals. I think it is a shining example of what Zelda could, should and likely will be.

First of all, the game was rushed. That explains why the characters are reused and why there is a three day system in the first place.

Majora's Mask is better than Ocarina of Time.

Majora's Mask is a lot deeper than you think. Its much more deeper than Ocarina of Time. Don't believe me? Look up a few videos on youtube such as secrets.

The characters in this game actually have personalities. They have real personalities. In most Zelda games, all the characters are robots but this game gives life to all the NPC's.

My main gripe with MM isn't really with the time system- the repetition of days and the time limit is, in fact, an innovative game mechanic that lends depth to the world.

Unfortunately, Majora's Mask is essentially attempting to take two unique flavors and running them through a food processor, and the point is that the main gameplay of MM doesn't mesh well with its world.
Termina is a beautiful place filled with countless secrets and a gripping story, and makes you really feel for its NPCs. This is a world that you really want to just take in an explore, doing sidequests and helping the people of the world.
However, right on top of this amazing work, they dump not only a time limit, which makes it hard to appreciate the game's atmosphere, but also a "reset button"- every time you save or run out of time, all of the exploration you did, all of the people you saved, all of the gripping story you experience... it just evaporates. As soon as you've finished something touching and incredible like the Anju/Kafei quest, the moon comes crashing down and resets all your hard work.
MM's main flaw is that Link is essentially powerless to affect anything outside of his own inventory- and only about 80% of that. You finish rescuing Lulu's children from pirates? MOON! Reunited two lovers? MOON! Saved the cows from an alien invasion? MOON! Delivered a girl's father from a terrible fate? MOON! That ******* moon is constantly undoing everything you do, and as a result Link's presence there seems completely pointless until he goes and gets rid of that idiotic moon.

In short, while the game's main mechanic was interesting and lent depth to the world, the same mechanic destroyed your ability to enjoy it. Despite a deep world, the storyline really didn't happen throughout the main quest, so couldn't there have been some kind of deus ex machina effect to allow you to actually keep your hard work from being undone? What's the point of saving a world when it'll never truly be saved until you go out of your way to ignore it and go shoot the moon?

"MM's main flaw is that Link is essentially powerless to affect anything outside of his own inventory"

You think so? IMO it was the high point. Link is powerless, there is a REAL threat, etc etc etc. MM was one of the mosts realistic Zelda games, in my opinion, because there was a REAL threat. More realistic would be a time limit without being capable of reseting it, but it would be so realistic it would suck because it'd be so hard. But yeah. No Ganon, no "sit and wait for Link", no fake threat, no artificial ominous feeling, no random power demonstrations to make you fear something'll never happen (Yeah, Zora's Domain, I'm looking at you).

But yeah, your post was good, Tvtmaster. I just think this "flaw" you said wasn't a con, t'was a pro. But it's a matter of opinion, isn't it? XD

Well, yes, the idea that there's a real threat is good, but it's not a good idea to sacrifice the ability to do [i]anything[/i] about the threat until the very end of the game. I think the game as a whole would have been better if at least some of the changes you made were permanent- the four main areas opened up a lot once you completed the dungeon, but usually there's no time to explore the newly opened area before the moon decides it's time for you to die.
One of the great things about Zelda is that when you've opened a new area, you can then start exploring without having to worry about a timer or mission objectives. With MM, the "real threat" really threatens only your ability to explore. The basic mechanic that makes saving people nothing more than a means to get the item you need for the next area is pretty much definitively a flaw.
Essentially, a mechanic that sacrifices exploration for a bit of atmosphere is not a good thing.

Hey TVTMaster - you are of course aware that once you've collected all the masks and gotten all the heart pieces you can start a final cycle in which you complete everything you would like to before you finally win the game? In one 3 day cycle you can do Anju/Kefai/Cremia/Romani, get all the zora eggs, kill all the bosses, save kuome, do both spider houses, let the postman flee, and if you really, REALLY hurry you can also collect all the stray fairies and put those girls back together. The only thing you can't do is stop the bomb bag lady from getting robbed, but such is life. Then just go up to that moon and kick some butt - presto! Everybody's happy! Majora's Mask FOREVER!!!

p.s. Oh yeah, don't forget the deku scrubs, the deku princess and the seahorses - and in your spare time, run a race or two with that poor butler. ??? will just have to do without toilet paper.

Hey TVTMaster - you are of course aware that once you've collected all the masks and gotten all the heart pieces you can start a final cycle in which you complete everything you would like to before you finally win the game? In one 3 day cycle you can do Anju/Kefai/Cremia/Romani, get all the zora eggs, kill all the bosses, save kuome, do both spider houses, let the postman flee, and if you really, REALLY hurry you can also collect all the stray fairies and put those girls back together. The only thing you can't do is stop the bomb bag lady from getting robbed, but such is life. Then just go up to that moon and kick some butt - presto! Everybody's happy! Majora's Mask FOREVER!!!

p.s. Oh yeah, don't forget the deku scrubs, the deku princess and the seahorses - and in your spare time, run a race or two with that poor butler. ??? will just have to do without toilet paper.

Hey TVTMaster - you are of course aware that once you've collected all the masks and gotten all the heart pieces you can start a final cycle in which you complete everything you would like to before you finally win the game? In one 3 day cycle you can do Anju/Kefai/Cremia/Romani, get all the zora eggs, kill all the bosses, save kuome, do both spider houses, let the postman flee, and if you really, REALLY hurry you can also collect all the stray fairies and put those girls back together. The only thing you can't do is stop the bomb bag lady from getting robbed, but such is life. Then just go up to that moon and kick some butt - presto! Everybody's happy! Majora's Mask FOREVER!!!

p.s. Oh yeah, don't forget the deku scrubs, the deku princess and the seahorses - and in your spare time, run a race or two with that poor butler. ??? will just have to do without toilet paper.

oops - i don't know why that posted 3 times. sorry!

oops - i don't know why that posted 3 times. sorry!

yah i agree with everything here u said it has allot of flaws espesially the time apradox but if u can see threw that its an overall alright game although the game doesnt really points out some of the places to go so u get got wandering allot and burning time so when u do find where u need to go u have to use the song of time which is a killer and also wtf with the pirates did they rent out a new place because its kinda a weird jump and i havent seen much improvment with graphics since the first 1 although it was made to go with the same system but a really great thing about this game is the masks that let u morph such as zora mask a the deity mask a great improvment yah comment back on what u think about that thxs my email is '' kieran.hodge@gmail.com ''